{The List-} Cheats

[MattH]

The overview has been editied! Please continue to add your cheat-related thoughts.
A question: how many of you use the cheat mode to get ahead in the game?

[Addled Platypus]

Never ever

I take my lumps. How else can one improve.

[Master Zen]

No cheats please in MP or PBEMs.

However in SP mode I would very much there be a "cheat menu" like in Civ2 for editing since the Civ3 editor system was utter crap.

[Apocalypse]

Well, if cheating is labeled or detectable somehow, then it wouldn't matter if it is allowed in MP or PBEMs because if someone cheats, you'd know.

Furthermore, one of the nice things about Civ2's cheating is that if you did cheat one or more times, it really didn't ruin the experience of future games. Heck, I cheated the hell out of my first couple games but stopped (largely because it wasn't fun) and ended up having a very fun many years of play. Do that with other games, and they are ruined.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Well, if cheating is labeled or detectable somehow, then it wouldn't matter if it is allowed in MP or PBEMs because if someone cheats, you'd know.

Furthermore, one of the nice things about Civ2's cheating is that if you did cheat one or more times, it really didn't ruin the experience of future games. Heck, I cheated the hell out of my first couple games but stopped (largely because it wasn't fun) and ended up having a very fun many years of play. Do that with other games, and they are ruined.

The problem is that you could always reload from a past save so there would be no evidence of cheating.

That is why I disapprove of having a cheat menu in MP or PBEM play. With SP each person should decide what to do with their games and if they want to cheat, or use the cheat menu for other ends so be it (I for example, used the Civ2 cheat menu to check out F11 stats from various periods in time after the game was over, or to do things like gift cities to allies which was not allowed by the game mechanics).

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Master Zen


The problem is that you could always reload from a past save so there would be no evidence of cheating.

That is why I disapprove of having a cheat menu in MP or PBEM play. With SP each person should decide what to do with their games and if they want to cheat, or use the cheat menu for other ends so be it (I for example, used the Civ2 cheat menu to check out F11 stats from various periods in time after the game was over, or to do things like gift cities to allies which was not allowed by the game mechanics).

Then just make it possible to deactivate certain features. You don't need to take out the whole freaking thing.

[Master Zen]

NO type of cheating should ever be permitted in MP or PBEM play, period. Please tell me what possible "cheat" features you'd like included in multiplayer?

[mrmitchell]

Cheat features in single player - yes

Cheat features in multi player - NO NO NO

[Apocalypse]

Cheats in Civs are useful for the same reason handicaps are useful in golf. Say some guy isn't good at building up quickly but you still want a competitive game. Give him two cities at the start, or an extra settler type unit. Or if someone just has an incredibly unfair and sucky starting position. Sometimes you like to make it so that they have to overcome that, but sometimes you want real competition.

[Jonny]

A cheat menu (as in Civ2) should be included in SP mode, IMO. It can certainly be useful in helping newer players stay competitive while learning the game and for scenario editing purposes.

No cheat menu in MP, of course.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Cheats in Civs are useful for the same reason handicaps are useful in golf. Say some guy isn't good at building up quickly but you still want a competitive game. Give him two cities at the start, or an extra settler type unit. Or if someone just has an incredibly unfair and sucky starting position. Sometimes you like to make it so that they have to overcome that, but sometimes you want real competition.

This is equally accomplished by editing the SCENARIO, doing it via a neutral person who is not in the game. This should not be able to be done in an already ongoing game which is why there should not be a cheat menu period in MP. You want to customize your game? Edit the scenario, not the save.

Many of the PBEMs started are made by 3rd persons who set up the game to be evened out among people. Moreso, I doubt there are enough example of people requiring "handicaps" to justify having a potentially game-ruining feature which can be exploited by people.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Master Zen
This is equally accomplished by editing the SCENARIO, doing it via a neutral person who is not in the game. This should not be able to be done in an already ongoing game which is why there should not be a cheat menu period in MP. You want to customize your game? Edit the scenario, not the save.

Many of the PBEMs started are made by 3rd persons who set up the game to be evened out among people. Moreso, I doubt there are enough example of people requiring "handicaps" to justify having a potentially game-ruining feature which can be exploited by people.

No, it's not equally accomplished since you have to edit the scenario before the start of the game. If you play with people you trust, then you can have the cheat option avalible. If you don't, deactivate it. You don't need to screw anyone else over.

And Jonny, Titans suck

[Master Zen]

Give me ONE compelling reason why would feel required in using a cheat menu to edit an already begun started MP game, something that couldn't be done with editing a scenario from the start.

[Apocalypse]

Why don't you read my previous post?

[Master Zen]

I did and you are still not answering my question: Give me one good reason why a cheat in MP should be included when all the game-balancing issues that you mention are and SHOULD be done instead from the start when editing a scenario? Again, give me ONE good reason why you would feel compelled to cheat to edit a MP game mid-way?